Angel rebutts Spike's rebut
Penned: 12/01/03

The original argument is italicized

Let 'em have it, Angel!

Boo and hoo. The universe doesn't have a great big karma scale, at least not on this side of things.

Uh huh. So, in other words, the world is unfair and should stay that way? That's a great argument.

Right. And let's see, what exactly did Angel do with all that time? In 1900, he tried to become evil again. In the fifties, he sicced a demon on an entire hotel full of people. He became a self-pitying schmoe who lived off of rats until Whistler grabbed him and took him on a trip to California where Angel fell instantly in love with the Slayer... WHO WAS 15! Angel's entire do-gooder mentality was based, technically, on romantic feelings for a juvenile! The guy is Michael Jackson! And, as I recall, he has slipped up in the past few years, hasn't he? Killing dozens of lawyers, for instance? Firing Gunn, Wes, and Cordy? Attempted suicide via Darla? Don't need to lose your soul to be evil, do you?

Whoa, whoa whoa. Okay, granted, having Angel fall in love with a 15 year old is creepy, but there was no contact until she was 17. Also, he wasn't sulking... he was doing penance and going through an immense soul-searching experience. Have some compassion!

If he tried to actually connect with his friends more often instead of pulling the brooding-I'm-so-much-worse-than-you-I'm-better-than-you card all the time, he might have a happier life, but that's not what he wants.

Hey, hey, hey! Angel keeps his problems to himself because he doesn't want to be a further burden. They really couldn't understand what he's gone through, and some of those things he actually can't tell them. What is he going to do, walk up to Wes and tell him all about Connor? Either Wes would think he was nuts or else Wes would feel awful for something out of his control... so Angel is actually saving him from the feelings of grief he gets himself.

No one ever promised Angel shanshu. In fact, Angel has at various times either stated he doesn't believe in it or, as in his epiphany, that doing what's right should be it's own reward. Is that just a load of malarky or did he really mean that he doesn't expect a reward?

Oh, come on. Angel didn't believe in shanshu because he had lost his faith in humanity. Is that really how you want Angel to wind up? And as for the epiphany, yes, doing what's right is good, but most people do expect a reward out of it, whether that's a pleasant afterlife or a feeling of ease in their conscience, and Angel wouldn't be able to get either of those things without shanshu.

Leaving Buffy was his choice, not hers. He decided he knew what was best for her and that she did not. That doesn't exactly come up as being a poster sentiment for trusting your loved one's judgement, now does it?

Well, the guy is from the 1700s. Cut him a little slack as far as the girl power bit is concerned. And he really did believe he was doing the right thing. Why should having her say she wants him there compell him to go against his own conscience? He has free will too, and Buffy didn't have the right to force him to stay. Besides, most of that was Joyce's idea.

That makes Angel indirectly responsible for Riley!

Right. Because Angel threw her into the arms of Captain Dopey. Please.

As for Connor, do you really expect to give the guy kudos for killing his son? Because that is exactly what he wound up doing.

That is completely uncalled for! Angel was torn apart by losing his son. It was probably the most painful thing he's ever had to endure. He did what was right for Connor even though it ripped him up inside. That alone should get him the shanshu.

First of all, the idea that the timeline on this changed makes it extremely suspect.

I doubt highly that Angel faked his own sweating and raving release from hell. He was traumatized. And perhaps the reason the timeline changed was because hell doesn't have regular time? I doubt the demons were holding up a calendar for him while he was on the rack.

And who says Angelus's actions are separate from Angel's completely? If Angelus really is Angel's id, then he's a part of Angel, so Angel was technically guilty and deserved what he got.

Of course there's a difference between Angelus and Angel. Angel is unable to stop Angelus. If Angel had been in control, Acathla would never have gotten out of the box. There's no way he deserved that.

Right. Because every story has to hinge on Angel. Balogna. Obvious is rarely the best choice.

Neither is toying with the audience.

He didn't have any problem with Cordelia not being able to walk in the sunlight with him. Face it. Angel loved Cordelia. He picked her over Buffy. He got over Buffy and would prefer to be with Cordy if she were not comatose.

First of all, Cordy is comatose. She's out of the running as of now. Second, Angel would never have looked at Cordelia if Buffy had been present. Angel loved Buffy. End of statement.

It would be far more interesting to see how Angel would react to someone else getting the shanshu and whether or not he still believed he could accomplish anything through his continued persistance in the cause of good.

While that would be interesting, that would make Angel a supporting character, not a leading character, as the only thing he would be doing is reacting.

It would be exactly what Joss has done in the past and is so good at doing: making us look one way when he's really doing something else behind our backs.

But it you're expecting it, it's not unexpected.

Fic Quote of the Moment